Miscellaneous Theories/Discussion

From AJ's post..I have also wondered if when CA told Williams that Caylee was still alive, even if she believed that, why wud she think it cudnt mean that some of her belongings were scattered????...

That's an example of why I think Cindy knew Caylee was dead, not thought, knew. It's like when they 'believed' the nanny might harm Caylee if Casey went to the cops but yet they don't believe the nanny may have done that and killed Caylee? So there's no need to look for a dead Caylee in case the nanny did kill her as they feared she might if they went to the cops, which they did go to the cops so....

The normal things a person would do if their granddaughter had been unseen for so long were not done, the biggest of them all being to allow for the possibility that Caylee was dead and at least not throw fits if anyone wanted to look in that direction. Cindy didn't have to look for a dead Caylee if she didn't want to, but to defy anyone else doing it was the most bizarre and telling thing about what Cindy knew. IMO therefore, she knew Caylee was dead and deliberately did everything she could to deny anyone looking in that direction perchance someone find her body.

Remember how she even wanted Tim Miller out of there because he was searching for a dead child? What did she think he was going to be searching for in the woods and fields of Orlando? Equusearch doesn't even search door to door. Did she think Tim was going to search the woods etc for a lost Caylee walking about trying to find her way home?

For their part, the Anthonys tried to stay focused on their agenda of pushing the live Caylee story. But it was always about saving Casey, not finding Caylee. I couldn't believe it when George took that billboard down the highways day after day, driving 55mph+ down the highways, what were passing drivers or people alongside the roadways going to do but say "what did that sign say?" Ever try to read something on a vehicle in motion, when the words are on the side of the vehicle? If he'd have had the message on the back of SUV so people could actually have a chance to read it and write down the phone number to call, that might have looked more honest. All it was was a token gesture, just like everything else the A's have done with regard to Caylee being gone, with their real focus on Casey's innocence.

Innocence of what? MURDER! Otherwise, they'd not have been pushing the 'alive' agenda exclusively and getting so irate with any mention of Caylee being dead. By irrational omission of any consideration Caylee could be dead, they were promoting Casey's innocence in the only way they could- there is no dead Caylee so Casey is innocent.

It's easy to think the Anthonys were in denial, but it's just as easy for me, anyway, to think they were just lying and pretending to believe the lie to protect Casey as much as they could. It's one thing to want to believe Caylee was still alive, and completely another to force that denial on everybody else including the cops who have a missing child, a lying mother and HAVE to explore all options. Oh, and the smell of death in the car!

AJ, I've wondered the same things as you! And here's more I've wondered.

When the Pontiac was 'discovered' to have been at the tow yard since June 30, Cindy remarked that she thought the car was in Jacksonville. But she'd talked to Casey before that and Casey had left from Jacksonville to Tampa and then there was Zanny's car accident where Casey had to return to get Zanny's insurance information in Orlando, George even saw her on the 24th, and after all that there was never any mention of Casey going back to Jacksonville. The Jacksonville trip was at the beginning of the 30 days starting June 16th, Casey hops all over the map and comes home on the 24th, yet when Cindy needed an excuse about the car being suddenly discovered impounded, she jumps back to saying she thought it was in Jacksonville. It all makes no sense, and something is a lie. Or all of it is a lie! LOL

When this case first hit the news, I was watching and reading whatever I could about it. I remember seeing on TV Alison (Kieth Williams' sister-Keith W being the guy who found the bag of stuffed animals) being interviewed by media and she said Cindy told her on June 16th that Casey was going to be gone to Jacksonville for a month looking for work and she was taking Caylee with her. Alison supposedly lived on Hopespring and she was a school chum of Casey's. That stuck out in my mind because it was one of the first things on TV about this case.

I assumed Alison was saying Cindy told her that ON June 16th, but she could have meant Cindy told it to her another day and just said Casey left on June 16th. But whatever, the story was out there that Casey and Caylee were going to be gone a month starting June 16th! So what's all this about Cindy saying she didn't know where Caylee or Casey were? Tie that into when the car is found and Cindy says she thought the car was in Jacksonville and we're back to her saying that to Alison about Casey going to be in Jacksonville a month!

One month later, they 'find' the car! And it's not in Jacksonville and probably never was.

Now Cindy might have thought Casey was going to Jacksonville on June 16th like she told Alison. But she knew she didn't stay there the entire 30 days, so she had no reason to claim on July 15th that she thought the car was in Jacksonville all that month.

She's covering for something! And I have suspicions that it might be that Cindy knew the car was abandoned.

I'll write more later!

Please use this thread to discuss miscellaneous theories, etc. about the case that don't fit in another thread..... but PLEASE, if your discussion does fit one of the current threads, please post it there... or feel free to start a new thread!!!

Thank you in advance.

Thanks for keeping the board clean, Snaz! Sorry!

I have a theory about the car being abandoned and towed and found. It's based on why the Anthonys wanted to lie about the gas gauge being broken on the Pontiac.

Casey didn't start running out of gas on a regular basis until June 20th. She runs out again on June 23, then again on June 27th. She claimed (and the A's backed her up later) that her gas gauge was broken, which would mean her gauge registered she has gas when she didn't.

This is very convenient if she wanted to claim she was out of gas when she was not. If someone checked her gauge she'd have an excuse. And an excuse it was because LE proved the gauge was NOT broken.

So I'm thinking she needed an excuse to be in certain places in case her car was seen and wanted to blame it on being out of gas so she could call someone to witness she was there for that reason.

I have not seen it said where she ran out of gas on June 20th, but on the 23rd she was somewhere in the vicinity of where the baby was found. Actually, it was close to the intersection of Killian and Anthony roads which if I understand correctly is close to Suburban Dr. How cute, huh? I'm thinking she was at those locations for a reason to do with either dumping Caylee or checking on things, but of course that's without knowing where she ran out of gas on the 20th.

Now on the 27th she's out of gas for the last time! And I don't think she was out of gas and had someone push her into the Amscott lot, because her ignition key was in the ignition slot and the door was locked and no one has come forward to say they pushed her in there, so I think she parked it there and left it running, took the rest of her keys, locked the door and went off until it ran out of gas. Why? The car would not stop stinking and she was over it!

I"m just working this theory out, so correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought it was LE documents that said the ignition key was in the ignition when LE got the car and that it had been reportedly abandoned that way. Why then did George say he put his set of keys in the ignition to start it up?

There is a reason why Casey didn't go back for her car, and it might be that she had locked the key inside while it ran out of gas by itself and then had no key to get back in since the ignition key is usually the door key.

This is a work in progress, and my peeps are calling me to fix food! *insert eye roll and a LOL* but think about that lie about the gas gauge being broken. Why lie about that?

i also believe that GA and CA figured it out AT THE TOWYARD that caylee was dead.

GA knew as soon as he approached the car, and CA either there, or as soon as they got back to the house, then-- the coverup started with a massive clean-up.

that is why i believe they should BOTH be charged with accessory after the fact.. no REASONABLE person would clean out a car ferociously, when their 2 year old gdaughter is missing, and the car smells like a dead body.. cause at that point if you listen to ONE of CA's stories, KC was also missing (until she "found" her at tony's).. that could be evidence, and they knew it.

but, in CA's OTHER stories, she talked to KC everyday, so KC was not "missing" .. it was only caylee that could have been in that car.

oh... how all these stories are going to come back and haunt them.. i cannot wait for the day when they are FORCED to answer for themselves on the STAND!!!

awaiting justice wrote:The thing that has me stumped the most is that if CA and GA knew that Caylee was dead prior to Jul 15, I dont think they wud have let her say the Sawgrass story...

I think they wud have had to stay with a kidnapping theme as they knew she was gonna be found all taped up, and bound..and feet away from their residence..(if they knew)... They wud have never let her use a place of abduction where there wud be video and a vacant apartment...they wud have also never let her lie by saying that she worked at universal with lots of the players.. and allow KC to take LE to her "office" ..lol

I really think that they wud have gone with a place like JBP right off the hop, so to remain consistent, (even though it wud still be unbelievable) but I think the Ants wud have eliminated all the lying to LE...that she worked, that her friends Jules and boss Tom were involved... If they cud have tossed out the lying that went on for 15 hours before being arrested..they wud have spared much of the circumstantial evidence... at least a bit where they cud try and create a shadow of doubt to jurors...

If as the discovery came out, we came to see that she was a liar to her frineds and all thru her life, it wud say a little more for her if there were no proven lies to LE..like that she works for Universal, then all of a sudden has to tell them no she doesnt..., If she didnt waver on her account to LE and told them the JBP and that she panicked.. it wud have better for the jury not to hear all the lies,...about Jules and boss Tom, she wud have a better chance.. Of course not much better ..but a little better.. or even say nothing at all andtake her to a lawyer where there wud have been cothing said other than what was concocted with a lawyer that evening...

I just think that if they really knew that Caylee was dead prior to Jul 15, and that KC killed her, they wud have planned KCs story much better...thats the reason I dont think they really knew till that day..Lets face it.. it wud be hard to find a fitting story but any story wud have been better than letting her go and lie to LE about the Sawgrass and being employed...

I do think they suspected something awful (like that she gave her up for adoption, or had her taken away by DFACS, or even sold her to some family....but not that their own daughter murdered her. I think the first inclination was when they picked up the car and they were prolly both in shock and not thinking clear because of the shock... at least until they picked up the car that day...I still go bak and forth though lol...

You bring up a good point, AJ. Why didn't they just do the JBP story first?

Well, maybe that was the plan and Casey screwed it up.

It was George and Cindy who first mentioned the JBP story to the cops/FBI. Casey said it for the first time after that, the day she got bailed out by Leonard P and she went to take a shower, Cindy went with her, and when Casey came out she had this JBP story that G,C, had already been telling the cops/FBI about. Maybe they didn't realize Casey hadn't told that part in all her other stories she told before she got arrested. LE split everyone up the minute they got to the house on July 15th, and asked them all questions separately. If Casey was supposed to tell the JBP story, Cindy wouldn't know she didn't. And no one else could tell it at that time because they were supposed to be in the dark about everything! And then while Casey was in jail they couldn't very well ask her about anything specific like the JBP story, and all they were hearing was about Sawgrass etc on TV and maybe Cindy complained to Casey in the bathroom once she got out on bail about the media leaving out the JBP story and Casey told her she forgot to tell that one, and Cindy told her she'd better go tell it NOW and get with the program since she and George had already told it! And she did! (that C and C in the bathroom alone and the JBP announcing by Casey was per Tracy, LP's girl in the house)

If Cindy was in on making up the nanny kidnap story, she probably wouldn't have told Casey to mention Sawgrass or talk about her job. She would have gone with the JBP story instead. And it might have worked better. Zanny and company took Caylee and gave Casey 30 days to learn her lesson, and if she did then Caylee would be returned by her birthday. Apparently Casey didn't learn her lesson, so Caylee died and they find her in the woods.

IMO Casey could have just screwed up because the cops were asking her stuff she felt like she had to make up some lie about just to have an answer. (that is her MO with everyone, you know?) Casey didn't say anything on the 911 tapes about dropping Caylee off so she could go to work. Cindy didn't either. Cindy just said The Nanny TOOK her. TOOK sounds more like the JBP story to me. Casey came up with the work story while she was out with the cops. I think she just wanted to do her own lying so she could keep up with it better. Like she posted to her myspace "trust no one, only yourself". I think it's makes sense that Casey would want to go it on her own with something as serious as this no matter what Cindy and/or George might have come up with, the JBP story. Afterall, she'd been lying forever and getting away with it. She thought she was the best! She spent a lifetime fooling her mom and dad, so why would she go along with them instead of doing her own thing? They're stupid, right?

Remember when Casey was complaining about being in jail and Cindy said "Well, sweetheart, if you hadn't lied". The only reason Cindy could come up with that Casey was in jail was because she lied? That made me think Cindy was rolling her eyes that Casey screwed up the plan, which probably was to tell the JBP story and none of that other stuff. Casey said "It's not my fault" to which Cindy replied, "what do you mean it's not YOUR fault"..and then the If you hadn't lied part. That screams "If you'd told what I told you to and hadn't lied your own stuff you'd not be in jail, so don't blame me", which Casey WAS blaming Cindy which screams Cindy came up with the plan.

Why didn't Casey tell it instead of all that other stuff? Again, she probably just thought she had a better idea than mommy did, or than daddy did. I add daddy in because George was a homicide detective before so who would know best how to stage a coverup that could confuse the daylights out of the cops?

*****

The stuff she said to Tony I think is a separate issue. I think she was just her trying to be cool and impress Tony who probably doubted she was working anyways. You notice she tells this to Tony after she's been on vacation for 2 weeks? Tony could have been suspicious that she didn't have a job, so she goes back to work after '2 weeks vacation' and talks about names to 'prove' she has a job and a nanny and it creates reasonable doubt for Tony. Once he believed it, she decided to play that tune again for the cops since it worked with Tony.

awaiting justice wrote:
jules is a funny girl. she’s one of my friends that i’ve hung out with, at my nanny’splace.

Is this a quote from Casey, or eva?

Sorry, I couldn't resist.

Delete if necessary.

OMG! LOL I was thinking the same thing Jules!

Julie and Dis...got to laugh or cry, and laughter is healing. You two are a riot when you get going.

Dis, Great minds......

Cali, Laughter is the best medicine.

Lottie..even though LE split them up, CA did know that KC had given the Sawgrass story... The Sawgrass hit the media Jul 16, 08

POSTED: Wednesday, July 16, 2008
UPDATED: 4:18 pm EDT July 17, 2008


ORANGE COUNTY, Fla. -- A woman accused of not reporting her daughter missing for five weeks refused to answer a judge's question of where her daughter was in a bizarre missing person case that continues to frustrate investigators. by AJ

IMO, That's how come Cindy said to Casey "If you hadn't lied". Translated into Cindy speak by me: "If you'd gone with the JBP story we agreed on, you'd not be in jail, Sweetheart. So don't say it's not your fault. You're the one who added that Sawgrass thing in there, not me."

the texts? Well, she sure could have been setting things up. I was just offering a different point of view about how Casey operates.

I'm still not convinced Casey made up a story with a bunch of names for the sole purpose of using them later in an elaborate story that would end in her killing Caylee and blaming it on a nanny. She seems more opportunistic than that.

I'm not saying she didn't plan to kill Cayee. I'm just thinking when she did the only thought in her head then was to blame it on someone else and at that point in time she asked herself who else could have had her and she used the nanny, then incorporated all her other lies from the past about the nanny and the nanny's life and her life with the nanny that she'd already been telling people. She'd been developing this nanny character since way back when the Grunds refused to watch Caylee anymore. Just because she mentioned some of the people in nanny's life to Tony on June 12th doesn't mean she made them up at that time.

The fact that she mentions her boss also, and as you pointed out that was the same one she got fake emails from (thanks, I didn't put that together!), shows how she digs back to past lies that worked for her before. Her reason for making up this fake boss in the first place was probably to fool her parents. She probably only used him again with Tony for the same reason, to make it appear she had a job so he wouldn't think she was worthless. She was trying to impress Tony after all. She wanted to keep her new boyfriend. Later she even steals Amy's money to go buy food and beer to impress Tony. She really was desperate for Tony to think she had a job/a paycheck.

Here's a new part of the story/theory I just saw Leonard Padillo say on Nancy Grace.

Leonard said the fight Casey and Cindy had on June 15th, Cindy knocked Casey down and George pulled them apart!

I know LP has said some weird things, but this is a new one for him. George was working that night, so if he broke up the fight then it happened after he got home from work, which then discounts the neighbor saying he heard a fight that evening.

Where does LP get this stuff?

He went on to say it was their theory that Casey left the house with Caylee after that and didn't spend the night there. So with that we're talking about waking up a sleeping child if the fight was after George got home. And that would account for the Pooh blanket. But her cell pings all night and the next morning from the area of the Anthony home so if she didn't stay there that night, then where?

Someone had a ping chart on WS that showed both Lee's and Kristina Chester's houses in the same area as the Anthony home.

LP said they (meaning him and his buds, I suppose) think George was lying about seeing Caylee the next day to cover for what Casey did to her that night after she left.

Just thought I'd share the latest from LP! See what you all think about it. I know LP has been all over the place and wrong, wrong wrong, but every dog has his day, so could he be right this time?

Lottie, this is not the first time I heard KC left the house on Sunday nite, with Caylee. Someone said her phone pinged in the area of a motel, and she was supposedly seen in the parking lot of the motel. I have never believed GA saw Caylee and KC leaving home, and he even described what Caylee was wearing. That is a bunch of BS. He did not know at the time, it would be the last time he would see Caylee, and no man looks that closely to what a person is wearing, not even a baby.

I agree with you sitemama. George lied by saying that Casey left with Caylee on the 16th, just like any other ordinary "work day". He is spineless as well as "less" in a lot of other categories. I wonder what field of police work he trained and performed in back in Ohio.

Great posts Lottie! I believe KC DID run out of gas and was going back to get her car (with the gas can that Amy bought) but was too late and the car had been towed. Valhall has a great post about the car. There is a thread with all the links on the RC somewhere. You should read it. She makes a lot of sense. Her site is called The Hinky Meter.

I don't think G or C knew anything until the day C found KC. Mostly for the reasons AJ stated and also the 911 call. That was an excited utterance, no matter what Bozo Baez says. That was a terror stricken grandmother who was very afraid for her grandaughter. The last honest statement that Cindy Anthony ever made. IMO I think Cindy thought until the moment she walked in KC's room that KC was playing games and just wanted to keep them from the baby. I also think she believed her when she said that Z had kidnapped Caylee. What choice did she have? This is her daughter, evil spawn or not, no one wants to believe something like that. Shortly after though, they knew. I am not so sure C or G did anything to clean the car other than taking things out. I think KC is the one who put chemicals on the stain. It wouldn't surprise me if they did though. I just don't think they knew until later that evening. Unless they are a lot smarter than we realize. And that is unlikely. LOL At first I thought they knew at the tow yard. I thought, they had to!!!, they both said it smelled like a dead body and G prayed that it wasn't "his Caylee". But I think a lifetime of covering for KC has made them avoid "bad news" at all costs. I think they all deal with their problems internally (within the family) so that outsiders only see the perfect Anthony's. George said that Cindy asked him if it was pizza that caused that smell and he didn't have the heart to disagree. It's sad but they made all the wrong moves and can never go back and do it different. I bet they would if they could. Am I giving them too much credit? I still say that the worst punishment they could ever get has already happened, they lost that precious baby, and no matter what, I think everyone agrees, they loved her. That has got to kill them. I think I talked myself into feeling a little sorry for them. See what happens when you guys are asleep? LOL Someone HELP ME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Dis, I agree with you that Cindy didn't realize Casey had killed Caylee until after the 911 call. If she knew before hand and wanted to cover for Casey, calling 911 and saying that Casey had stolen their car and it smelled like there had been a dead body in the trunk was a very bad way to go about it.

I also agree that the Anthonys loved Caylee in their own twisted way. In their minds, they are probably justifying the cover up by telling themselves that sending Casey to prison either for life or to receive the death penalty isn't going to bring Caylee back. Cindy may also blame herself for pushing Casey too far with the tough love and the fight.

sitemama wrote:Lottie, this is not the first time I heard KC left the house on Sunday nite, with Caylee. Someone said her phone pinged in the area of a motel, and she was supposedly seen in the parking lot of the motel. I have never believed GA saw Caylee and KC leaving home, and he even described what Caylee was wearing. That is a bunch of BS. He did not know at the time, it would be the last time he would see Caylee, and no man looks that closely to what a person is wearing, not even a baby.

I had heard KC was seen in the parking lot of a motel before. LP said it when I heard it. I didn't know it was within the ping area of the Anthony home though. That's interesting.

I have never believed George saw Caylee on the 16th either! Like you, I don't think he'd have remembered what she was wearing or what Casey was wearing if it was just a normal day.

I think George suffers from CRS and just won't admit it...More than likely one day is just like the other to him except when he drove THAT car home...

Amen Estee.......I would think any normal person would have called the police right then and there. Afterall, they hadn't seen their daughter or granddaughter for a month...

Piper...I think I would have driven it straight to the Police Department....Daughter's car or not!!!!