How Long did the Perp Feel He/She had, B4 a Massive Hunt wud Ensue?

I have been wondering this...

Whoever took Kyron, must have felt some pressure. It wud have had to be a thought as to how long it wud take before LE were driving thru town with their sirens and how long before ppl were out looking all over the place for this little boy who vanished..

In other words, you wud think that it had to be a concern. If the perp, knew that it appeared no one saw them leaving the school yard, (with Kyron..either on foot or vehicle) ..it must have been a thought as to how long before Kyrons parents wud be notifoed and the emergency crews were out, as well as when a potential amber alert wud be up and running..

I am assuming that whp ever took Kyron, wud have predicted that his disappearance wud be known relatively quick ...

Thoughts?

I think a perp would feel he had an hour at the most, but possibly as little as a half hour. They definitely wouldn't be expecting a six hour window. I would expect a teacher or another student to notice Kyron missing within 10 minutes. The teacher might think he's in the bathroom, give him a couple minutes, and then send a boy student to check.

I would then expect the teacher to notify the office which would then probably do a PA announcement asking Kyron to report to his room or to the office. The office would also probably have staff split up and search the school for him. They might check the gym, restrooms, and all the different rooms with science fair projects set up.

If they didn't find Kyron within 10 minutes, they would probably then call police. Police would probably show up within 10 minutes of being called, interview a few people, do their own search, and then send out an alert for other LE and emergency crews to be on the lookout for him. Unfortunately an Amber alert probably wouldn't have been issued, because in many cases they won't issue one without a name and description of a suspect.

I so agree J4A..... which brings me to this conclusion...

Whoever took him, probably wud have thought from the time they grabbed him, or got him in their car (even willingly)...

anyone (inclu T D or K ) wud have predicted they had about maybe 20 or 30 minutes of time, to get out of dogde...

If it was a monster pig (one who noone wud have suspected/knew, or a monster that felt he wud not have been the one who LE were immediatley going to look for..) then the monster/perp wud have prolly knew he had about 20 or 30 minutes to take Kyron out of that neighborhood.. Once he was away from the school, he wud have wondered if anyone cud have identified him, and maybe came looking ...

The perp, may have seen someone who saw him. This person may not have even recollected it, but we can safely assume that the monster, whoever it was, was seen someshere in the vacicinity of the schhol. Maybe not their face, but surely their car.. (though this observer) didnt even recollect the sighting.. Either way, the monster wud not have ever known that he was not being sought, until the minutes turned to hours and hours turned to days...and now months ..

If it was T or D or K... they wud have predicted that LE and the school wud be hunting them down, to see if they knew anything about Kyrons whereabouts.. parents especially Terri wud have been the first ppl the school and LE wud be hunting for..

Knowing that T was doing errands and was downtown at 2 very public stores during the intitial time that Kyron wud have gone missing from... this shud have exonerated her from the list of suspects..

One cant honestly think that she cud have taken him, then gone to do these errands as she wud have had no time to have done anythiong with him, and she wuds have suspected that LE wud have been combing the community looking for him..

The fact that 6 hours went by, before anyone knew, is a total tragedy, and wud have certainly been unexpected by the perp who took him..

We cant honeslty think that D k or T cud have the wherewilall (experience) in thbis situation to have been able to outsmart the entire LE and the community as by rights... no one cud have ever predicted that the school was going to DROP THE BALL, and lose a 7 yr old boy!!

If you have ever considered T D or K... does this help rule them out?????

If Kyron was taken by someone at the school (outsider who just happened to be there? Someone just looking for a child who would be an easy snatch?)- I would think that they would've high tailed it away from there as fast and as far as they could go quickly.

It might have been only a matter of minutes before he was noticed to be missing........ or as much as an hour or two. (For the life of me, I don't care what was going on at the school that day, a young student being missing for 7 hours with no one noticing is ridiculous...... and tragic for Kyron- but I don't think any could have anticipated that.)

kh

Just so I know my point is clear.... wud you then think that it wudnt make sense to suspect Terri, as she, or whoever took him.. wud have assumed that Kyron was being looked for immediately, and so were his parents..

On account we know she went downtown 2 stores.. shudnt this help eliminate Terri from the roster??? Why didnt LE consider this?? instead of helping turnn the community against her??

awaiting justice wrote:Just so I know my point is clear.... wud you then think that it wudnt make sense to suspect Terri, as she, or whoever took him.. wud have assumed that Kyron was being looked for immediately, and so were his parents..

On account we know she went downtown 2 stores.. shudnt this help eliminate Terri from the roster??? Why didnt LE consider this?? instead of helping turnn the community against her??

Good question- I think LE's thinkin is that Terri was "unaccounted for" for a period of time after she dropped Kyron off and thus had time to "do something" with/to him. kh

PS: But I in no way endorse what LE has done with the the help of the media/family to Terri publically to villianize her with no apparent evidence to back it up. kh

KH said...

" Good question- I think LE's thinkin is that Terri was "unaccounted for" for a period of time after she dropped Kyron off and thus had time to "do something" with/to him. kh "

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Yes, I agree but my prob is... we know she was at 2 stores within minutes of having dropped Kyron off, and leaving the school...

If Terri was the one who took him, she or anyone who took him, wud have had to assume that there wud have been a huge hunt going on, and that she and K wud have been called immediately....

Even if she thought it wud be ok that she wud not have been reachable.. she wud have thought that Kaine wud have been and that he wud be on his way and looking for Kyron and her for that matter.. especially knowing that Kyron had already for sure been seen at school...

If anything, she wud have been worried that ppl wud have been worried that not only is Kyron gone, but that she cant be reached.... So ppl wud be double worried and not only looking for her and Kyron, but her truck as well...

Why wud she have ever gone to 2 stores downtown, right after??? Where wud Kyron have been? She wud not have had time yet to have done anything with him, and surely she wud not have left him in the truck, where any passer by cud have spotted him AND HER TRUCK, easily especially where she wud have been anticipating that ppl were out looking????

It seems to me that LE never took this into consideration at all....

If Terri was the one who did this.. I cant see how she wud have leisruely went to 2 diff stores before doing the deed... as clearly there was no time beforehand...

.................. Yes, I agree but my prob is... we know she was at 2 stores within minutes of having dropped Kyron off, and leaving the school... Oh, okay, I get it now. I thought she was at the stores later in the morning.

If Terri was the one who took him, she or anyone who took him, wud have had to assume that there wud have been a huge hunt going on, and that she and K wud have been called immediately.... I think LE believes she has an accomplice, someone she gave Kyron to, which could have been done quickly. They desperately wanted DiDi to be that accomplice, but couldn't make that fly .........
kh

Yes KH... which is where LE is showing me how stupid they are...

allegedly she went to Albertsons first, and then across town to the Fred M's where she bumped into AL at 10:10 ....

Nothing in that timeline suggests anytime that she cud have done this,..... so this is where LE have clearly confirmed everything she told them to be true, so becasue LE has confirmed her timeline and clearly shows there was no way she cud have done it..they turn around and say /... " well someone must have helped her" ...It is a cop out as notghing sahe has ever been able to say or do, to prove her innocence has been enough.. LE has shown me they are hellbent on using her as the scapegoat who did this, and they will wait till they have some nut who will do a tell all on the hot seat, where in turn they will get time off or something in lieu of their big fat lie.. in the meantime the perp likley lauyghs and walks on only to continue commiting his heinousness..

So yes.. I agree with you.. as soon as LE cant pin it onm the person,, it seems poretty typiclal for them to now say ..she must have had help, rather than saying to themselves that they were wrong... move on and find the monster and Kyron...

To think that a person (who has no motive) wud be able to involve another person in such a heinous crime against a child is ludicrous...

I realize that unfortunaltely ppl sometimes do kill their children..

But what many arent seeing (ESPECIALLY LE) is that the parents that commit these crimes, leave all kinds of evidence ..

Casey Monster Anthony...

DNA and death banded hair in her car..

No report of missing child - ever

Lies. lies and more lies, that we heard with our very own ears...

Monster Skelton

3 nooses at the scene

3 coats in the house

changed stories.. gave them to JT now to an organization,

in the process of committing suicide...

Zahra

No missing child report

Abuse allegations from way back

Mental illness..

Remains found close by to the house

Elizabeth Monster Johnson

The threat being made to the father

No report of a missing child

Mental Illness

Abuse (medication)

Saying he is in the dump...

Susan Monster Smith

Letters confirming boyfriend doesnt want kids...

9 days later, a confession, after LE didnt give up on her inconsistencies..

Dianne Monster Downs

Boyfriend didnt want kids

Forensic evidence of how she shought herself in the forearm

Her own child testifying that she was the shooter..

A witness seeing her driving 10 miles an hour with 3 babies shot dead and dying in the backseat....

Monster DeBlase

He told LE where the remains were after he got caught

Andrea Yates

Told on herself immediately following

Monster Coleman

Receipts for red paint

Cameras showing no vehicles in or out of the property

Affair

Call to G/F right after

Lies about his timing...

Planned divorce but unknowing to the dead wife


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Can someone show me a case where the a parent killed their child and left no evidence and had no motive??? No history of child abuse, a clean past???????? and also where someone else was involved who happened to just want to " help" the perp get rid of the child, and/or give a child away to human trafficing ..for no reason???

This case screams monster pig, and it infuriates me that LRE have not acted in a way that supports the thought that they ever considered it, and the ultimate maddening thing, is that many many ppl, even consider terri or any of the H's in that case, as the likely suspects....

I don't fault LE for focusing on the family immediately. But I agree they should have been simultaneously considering a non-familial abduction and moving swiftly with standard protocols under that assumption. They were handicapped by a six hour window before being informed of the missing child - this is not the fault of LE, but an inexcusable mistake by the school (unless someone at the school is involved). Then, once notified, LE operated under the amateurish assumption that Kyron wandered off for over 6 hours, giving the perp even more time to avoid detection. Finally, they compounded this mistake by getting stuck on Terri (maybe based on Kaine's biased suspicion of the woman he was about to divorce), giving the real abductor another huge advantage to execute his crimes without detection. Does it get much worse?

Wonder if LE was able to get a warrant for audio surveillance of the house when DeDe was staying with Terri? If they had an allegation (or created one) of MFH, a judge might have granted permission to bug the house. Was DeDe cooperating with LE at that time? If LE was listening in, they must not have gotten any incriminating evidence; neither Terri nor DeDe has been indicted or named a suspect after 7 months of intense investigation by local LE, the FBI, the Secret Service....

Bottom line: instead of trying to identify the perp through the assumption that Terri was involved, it is my opinion that LE should have simultaneously been dedicating considerable resources towards identifying the possible perp(s) as if it wasn't an "isolated incident". If they find the perp and later determine that there was some connection to the family, anyone with culpability will be on the hot seat. I think that's what LE is doing now, but so much time has passed.

Peace to Kyron and all who love him.

awaiting justice asked:
Can someone show me a case where the a parent killed their child and left no evidence and had no motive??? No history of child abuse, a clean past???????? and also where someone else was involved who happened to just want to " help" the perp get rid of the child, and/or give a child away to human trafficing ..for no reason???
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Here is the link to the only case I know about that fits your criteria. The motive wasn't known until the stepmother's friend confessed. Stepmom had help abducting the child from the school by her friend. No physical evidence was found. In this case, the stepmom was much younger (22); she had a clean record up until then, but again, she was only 22. Her maiden name was Spitser (weird coincidence). The FBI was able to crack her within a couple of weeks...

http://www.people.com/people/archive/article/0,,20104652,00.html

I don't think this parallels Kyron's case, just answering your question about any other cases that meet your criteria. This is the closest one that I know about...

truthb,

I dont fault LE for starting with the family either.. Not one little bit...

My prob is like yours.. its the fact that they got stck there, and never moved passed it (including not checking the 2 dumps) that very day.... or at least shortly after wards..

I too think that LE are going with that they will sit back and wait/find someone (like the landscaper MFH) who can trade off info.... for immunity (from theire own problem) were they can get on the stand and say that Terri did it..

I am seeing a common thread in many wrongful convictions of just this very thing...

It might sound surprising but apparently there are many ppl who are ready to get on the stand and say just about anythoing, where it benefit them someone whether it is less time for their own legal problems or even dropping charges altogether ....

I disagree with these type of cases...forensics are what is required and these forensics shud not be hard to find, especiually if the POI is already available to LE, along with their things (ie cars, house computer)of course finding Kyron wud be the answer, and I still cant believe how LE hardly searched...

On account that we know Terri was around after the crime wud have taken place... it shud go to prove that T. didnt do it, as she wud have expected ppl and LE to be searching for her and she wud have been easily found ....

awaiting justice wrote:Yes KH... which is where LE is showing me how stupid they are...

allegedly she went to Albertsons first, and then across town to the Fred M's where she bumped into AL at 10:10 ....

Are they still saying Terri went to a Albertson's store? I thought that was just a rumor and it's been changed to two Fred Meyers instead. I know on Dateline they just said two Fred Meyers and when the LE were asking for tips on a white truck in a parking lot, it was for two Fred Meyers. These two stores are Freeway close so it wouldn't have taken her long to drive from one to the other. On the other hand, I grew up in Beaverton and I can tell you traffic is terrible and you really can't count on it moving smoothly. If I was plotting a crime that counted on a tight time range, I would not plan on being in Beaverton.

truthbtold wrote:

Wonder if LE was able to get a warrant for audio surveillance of the house when DeDe was staying with Terri? If they had an allegation (or created one) of MFH, a judge might have granted permission to bug the house. Was DeDe cooperating with LE at that time? If LE was listening in, they must not have gotten any incriminating evidence; neither Terri nor DeDe has been indicted or named a suspect after 7 months of intense investigation by local LE, the FBI, the Secret Service....
Peace to Kyron and all who love him.

I'm wondering if LE needed a warrant because the house was in Kiane's name and if he gave permission for it to be bugged, I'm thinking they might not need a court order. I'm not a lawyer so I don't know how the law reads about such things.

Truthb,

Thank you for bringing the case of Scotty Baker...


you said....

"I don't think this parallels Kyron's case, just answering your question about any other cases that meet your criteria. This is the closest one that I know about..."

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Thanks for bringing this Truthb... I hadnt known of this very sad case before...

Im glad you pointed out that it doesnt really parallel Kyrons case.....and that it was as close as you cud find finding a case where my criteria was ...

AJ asked....

" Can someone show me a case where the a parent killed their child and left no evidence and had no motive??? No history of child abuse, a clean past????????

The gist of this sad crime is that a 10 yr old boy was abducted from his school,(1994) from his school by his 22 yr old step mother who had proven to be mentally unstable (suicide attempt in the months prior over noted jealousy of the boy and his dads relationship.. and prior separations and then reconciliations in their short lived relationship with the dad, which was under a yr....

My point is that it only took LE 6 days to get the entire truth and the remains....and the facts around the crime...

Her diary showed the mindset of her jealousy and that she clearly resented his presence...

In other words.. stepmother left all kinds of evidence, along with noted mental illness, and prior history jealousy problems with her stepson... and with Scottys dad...

The father had only known the girl since the fall of 93, and they were married Feb 94, where she had tried to commit suicide in the summer of 94 and Scotty disappeared the day before Thanksgiving 94...

And the case was solved in a matter of a days where they had his remains..

I appreciate so much bringing this case. This case does support that for whatever reason a friend wud ever help, or be a parte too... it does happen and this case reflects just that...

It is said that the friend was duped by stepmom, but I dont believe her.. She had to know somethiong was going to go down, for her to have to put on a disguise....

here is another article..

http://www.people.com/people/archive/article/0,,20104652,00.html

Elphie,

Here is the article from KATU.. that says it was a Freds and Albertsons...(my point in this thread is to show that Terri was likley not involved at all.. as she wud have expected that everyone incl LE wud have been on this case in minutes after he was missing.. whatever perp took him, must have expected le and Kaine wud be searching for him very soon after he was taken.. sop why wud Terri be out shopping?? and where wud she have put Kyron?? she had not time to do anything...here is the article..

Story Published: Jul 9, 2010 at 6:35 PM PST

" PORTLAND, Ore. - Investigators have collected surveillance videos from local grocery stores in the disappearance of Kyron Horman, sources said.

The corporate offices of Fred Meyer and Albertsons both confirmed to KATU News on Friday they are cooperating with investigators in the Kyron Horman case.

Officials with Albertsons said they’ve turned over surveillance video from their store on Beaverton-Hillsdale Highway on June 4, the day the Skyline School second-grader disappeared.

Fred Meyer officials, however, will only say they are working with detectives regarding at least one store. They said if they turned over surveillance video, it would be up to investigators to disclose it to the media; however, sources said that the Sunset Fred Meyer off Highway 26 in Hillsboro has submitted video for investigators to review.

That store is five miles from Skyline School. The Albertsons, depending on the route taken, is anywhere from 14 to 16 miles from the school.

Investigators are trying to establish Terri Horman’s timeline, sources said. They say Terri was the last person to see Kyron and they are trying to find out what she did after she dropped him off at the school.

There is no indication that Kyron is in any of the video.

Former Multnomah County prosecutor Jim McIntyre said an arrest in this case has not been made because, “You have to be able to identify specifically what crime you’re going to charge. You can’t simply say, ‘you’re under arrest because everyone thinks you did something.’ I mean, you have to have evidence, more likely than not, that you committed a specific crime.”

He pointed out that without knowing what happened to Kyron, it is difficult to arrest someone and charge them based on circumstantial evidence alone.

He also said there’s a big difference between missing children and missing adults in pressing ahead with charges that are based on circumstantial evidence.

Adults leave paper trails that children don’t. They buy things at grocery stores with credit cards, use ATMs, write e-mails and make phone calls. Those are the kinds of things that stop when adults disappear. But a 7-year-old doesn’t leave those kinds of digital footprints.

“So when you have a child that goes missing, it becomes extremely more complicated in trying to establish whether that child is missing or whether that child is deceased,” said McIntyre. “If you don’t know those two answers then how do you identify which crime to charge?”

As to making an arrest in a murder-for-hire plot, McIntyre said that type of case is one of the hardest to prove unless the suspect or suspects confess or implicate themselves in the crime.

Police have not named Terri Horman as a suspect in the disappearance of Kyron and they haven’t made any arrests in the case."

http://www.katu.com/news/98150609.html

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awaiting justice wrote:Elphie,

Here is the article from KATU.. that says it was a Freds and Albertsons...(my point in this thread is to show that Terri was likley not involved at all.. as she wud have expected that everyone incl LE wud have been on this case in minutes after he was missing.. whatever perp took him, must have expected le and Kaine wud be searching for him very soon after he was taken.. sop why wud Terri be out shopping?? and where wud she have put Kyron?? she had not time to do anything...here is the article..

http://www.katu.com/news/98150609.html

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It maybe that Terri went to one Albertsons and then on to two Fred Meyers in her June 4th journey. A point that I would like to make is if she was basically driving around waiting for Kiara's meds to kick in and calm her down, why would people assume that she would take the most direct route back over the West Hills to get to Cornelius Pass and Hwy 30, and then possibly to SI. If it's just a matter of killing time, there are far more pleasant routes ( not as fast ) to take heading that direction.

Personally, even if she did take the fastest route, I don't believe she could have made it to the far side of SI, do the deed, and speed back to the gym in the time allotted.

Elphie said:
I'm wondering if LE needed a warrant because the house was in Kiane's name and if he gave permission for it to be bugged, I'm thinking they might not need a court order. I'm not a lawyer so I don't know how the law reads about such things.
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I think you're right Elphie. Kaine could probably authorize bugging the home as the legal owner (don't think Terri's name is also on the mortgage). The reason why I'm curious about it is because it explains the failed MFH sting, LE appearing to back off of DeDe even though they haven't directly stated that her full alibi is now confirmed, Kaine not forcing Terri out immediately when he took custody... If LE really thought Terri was the one, could they have worked with Rudy to conjure up a MFH story to convince Kaine (or a judge) to allow bugging the house before DeDe moved in with her? Just curious speculation that might explain some of the loose ends...

And more importantly... she wud have assumed she was being sought..not as the perp necessarily but she wud have thought that LE and K were on the scene and that she was being looked for..

Im not sure if she used cash or electronic methods of payment, but she did have a conversation with an acquaintence.. She shud have been worried that ppl and LE in town wud be driving around looking for her hoping to have found Kyron with her...

I suspect LE searched SI as she likley told them that she drove to that area with Kiera... and thats why looked (like SP had said he fished in the Bay... )

I believe that everything she told them must be true or she wud have been arrested at least on obstruction charges...who knows she may have been at more places than whet we know about as we havent seen her statement and God knows K isntr going to say anything that will help her..