I don't know about George....

From the time he did the "suicide attempt".... my first thought was he was involved.

I'm a firm believer he "is" a slim ball. Been reading that he was out of work, pretending to work (sound familiar) and his girlfriend was giving him money so Cindy wouldn't suspect he didn't have a job. Don't know if they've discounted the girlfriend saying George told her "it was a terrible accident".... if it's valid, I hope they call her to the stand.

I asked myself "WHY IN THE WORLD WITH A GRANDCHILD HE LOVED SO MUCH" would he try a cover up to make it seem that it was a murder, putting her little body out to rot and be drug by animals. That's really impossible to accept. But then I did read.... it's a crime for a child to drown while you are the caregiver, babysitter,.... supposed to be watching over them. He is an x-cop.... maybe it was more important to protect himself at that point. I sure don't know.

He did have keys to that car....
I think the defense will cross examine him again with detail that will shock us...
they will have to bring out that he took Caylee, told Casey to shut up about, put the tape on Caylee's mouth to make it look like a crazy person took her and murdured her as his cover up. Casey putting the heart on the tape before he took her away in the trunk of the car so he could put her where he thought she would soon be found... but she wasn't. The waiting knowing she was decomposing out there alone in the woods along with what he had done I think drove him to the suicide attempt.

Well George... a CRAZY PERSON DID DO THIS TO HER....
EITHER YOU OR CASEY... OR BOTH

... and then on the other hand I have strong feelings that maybe George is just a slim ball and that's how I'm reading him. Casey had started using chloroform on Caylee so she could go out at night and she overdosed her. Casey, trying to make it look like a "Zanny Murder".... did the same things I said above.... duct tape, make it look like murder.... put her somewhere she'd be found soon so they could have a proper funeral... but that didn't happen. Whoever put her there used the blanket from her room, leaving a matching laundry bag at the house as a match, a Disney bag you know her family recognizes from their house, and then most important.... the rare duct tape that matches what they have at their house.

Now the syringe.... unbelievable

Welcome to RC mindseye. Reading your comments above, sounds like I could have been the one writing this. At first I also thought GA was helping KC cover up an accident, or else he knew ahead of time what KC had done to Caylee, and that is why he attempted the suicide. But now, I'm not too sure of that theory.

I do believe your second comment is more to the point. I also think KC was drugging Caylee and putting her in the trunk at night. I think her parents were mad at her the day after father's day and wouldn't answer their phones when she called them about baby sitting that Monday nite so she could spend the night with Tony. She got into one of her rages, like we saw in the jail house tapes, and that is when she killed Caylee. If the duct tape was only over her mouth, so she couldn't cry out, the heat in the trunk could still have killed her the next day, as Tony said he laid out of school and they spent the entire day in bed, thus KC didn't check on Caylee till late in the day.

I don't think we will ever know the truth of what happened, as we all know, Casey does not know how to tell the truth.

Again, welcome, and join us in the live chat tomorrow as we watch the trial together.

Hi Mindseye. I get what you're suggesting about George and possible involvement.

Here's my thoughts...but I'm not saying I believe this is what happened...just thoughts...

I do believe the family was used to whoever was in eyesight of Caylee was therefore in charge of her....just like KC did with Caylee when she was at Tony's with her...you know KC would be in Tony's room and Caylee would be in the living room and even waking up whoever was sleeping on the couch?

And I think the whole family fought the evening of June 15th including George getting in on it when he got home from work.

Then it's possible during the day Caylee was not being watched by either KC or George because each one assumed the other had her since she was not in sight of either one and they weren't talking to each other because they were mad so no one really knew who had Caylee. Seriously, I think if Caylee didn't bother anyone then no one checked on her. ..but she had gone outside in the morning and drowned....the ladder could have been forgotten to be moved because of the fight the night before so Caylee got right in without her floatation gear because just a week before KC and Tony had her at the pool at his apartment complex 'teaching her to swim' and she thought she didn't need her floatation gear.Tony had said in the beginning that Caylee thought she was swimming but she was really just being passed back and forth between him and KC. But they let Caylee think she was swimming anyways.

So KC leaves and just assumed George is going to watch Caylee....and George assumes, since he had to work that afternoon, that since KC is gone she must have taken Caylee with her because she knew he had to go to work. But Caylee is dead in the pool.

Now KC remembers George had to work, so she drags her ass on home to get Caylee but George is gone already. Cindy, of course, is at work. KC assumes George took Caylee to Cindy at her work because often times KC had taken Caylee to Cindy at work when KC 'had to work' and Caylee would stay with Cindy during the transition time between KC's 'job' and Cindy getting off work.

KC makes a flurry of phone calls to both George and Cindy...and we know this flurry of calls pinged from the tower that served the Anthony home...so KC was near or at her home when she called her parents repeatedly. I think with this theory it could be argued that she was attempting to get up with her parents to say she was there finally to get Caylee. But no one answers her calls. This is an interesting thought because KC's phone later pings from the area of Cindy's workplace...and no answer again after which KC goes to Tony's.

So at this point, I'm thinking KC could have assumed her parents were both mad at her for not being there when George had to go to work....and her parents are not answering their phones because they think KC is trying to pawn Caylee off on them so she can 'go to work' when they already know she's not working anywhere. In the mean time, Caylee has drowned hours ago!

On cross today that bearded lawyer mentioned to Dr G that maybe the reason no one called 911 upon finding an accidental drowning was because the child was definitely dead so what's the use in it? So...maybe by the time they found Caylee in the pool so many hours had passed that SOMEBODY was going down for not watching her for HOURS which resulted in death.

Of course, KC is going to say she left Caylee with George and he knew she did and he let her drown...and George would say he assumed KC had Caylee...he said, she said...and since both of them are pretty much always on Cindy's shit list they may have conspired to hide this whole thing from Cindy.

Also, remember when KC said she repeatedly tried to call Zanny that afternoon and NO ONE answered! She didn't say SHE didn't answer....she said NO ONE which sounds like plural as in she called more than one person...and since we know, even though the time if off, the only persons she called repeatedly that afternoon were Cindy and George then Zanny = George and Cindy.

But that's just putting a few things together that might add up...but with all the other stuff...it just sounds like a good alternate theory than what probably really happened which probably is that KC killed Caylee on purpose, period.

Goood points - even if George and Casey were both at the house... I think your right...they would have thought the other was watching Caylee.

I found it "fishy" for Cindy to tell co-workers the next day the she thought someone was swimming in their pool, the ladder was down. Sounds like the start of the plan to me.

I do think they all loved her dearly, but the family is so disfunctional... anything could have happened. I just can't see Casey killing her intentionally. She did seem to really love her. But she is a sociopath, putting Caylee to sleep with chloroform so she could do what she wanted to do with no remorse. I feel that's why she was able to be the party girl for the 31 days following. No remorse, no guilt. I think she, and George if he was involved felt Caylee would be found soon and when found it would appear to everyone it was a murder and they would mourn then as a loving family, and they would be suspect free victims of a terrible crime.

HLN recently interviewed George's first wife. She married him right out of high school. She said he was a very nice person but a habitual liar.... (another.... sound familiar)

There was much stupidity in leaving items from the house at the site... is George that Stupid?.... he was a cop. Casey is....

But why would Casey pull George into the crime of hiding the drowned

Welcome to RC, mindseye!

(opps - I'm continuing below)

the drowned Caylee??? It's so off the wall it's like it must have some merit, why would they just pull that out of their hat? Why would Casey even think to make that up???? She's a liar but my God... incriminate her own Father???

After throwing this bomb out in the opening statement.... they MUST have more they intend to back it up with. I think they laid her down on the ground where the dogs both picked up the scent. But they pick up the scent of decomposure.... that takes time to start. Did they cover her with something and in the heat she started to decompose very quickly. I can't imagine them leaving her out there covered while they were figuring out what to do... but those dogs are well trained. Possibly she floated in that pool a long time in the hot sun before being found.

It struck me odd that neither George nor Cindy acted shocked hearing the allegations in the opening statements of Casey's attorney.

When Lee spoke at Caylee's memorial... he said he will hold the secret CMA. Has he been asked in court what that was all about? Cindy, Casey and Caylee all have the same initials - no one knew what he was talking about or who he was talking about.

Well tomorrow's another day...

It has always bugged me when in the jail visit with just "daddy" George says to KC you know somethings are are going to come out and she says I know. What did he mean? I personally have never believed George attempted suicide. Noone stops to get food and beer before suicide and does it the same time his lawyer just happens to be at his house with the wife. I think the fact that Conway is no longer their lawyer speaks volumes.

George is a little odd, and so is Lee. They both give me the creeps...but, I think the entire family tip toed around Casey her entire life and she was never made to own up to her lies/mistakes which helped create who she became. Once Caylee was born all attention Casey once got went to the baby and then they expected her to be an adult/mother.

As far as the dogs hitting on a spot in the yard. If the baby drowned in the pool WHY would they place the body on the other side of the yard out in the open? (Pool is on one side, Caylees playhouse on the other).

I keep trying to put George in on the crime. Why would a parent be involved in a crime (or accident) their child commited? To protect them? If so, would he not do the very best job he could to insure his daughter could get away with it? (he was a cop) I can come up with quite a few senerios to cover up this accidental drowning story off the top of my head and none of them involve pretend people or any of the facts in this case. If he intentionally framed her, why? Why would he do that? Would she really sit in jail for three years without ratting him out?
I hope we know the truth some day, the real truth...but I doubt it.

I don't think he was involved to protect her...
I think he was covering his own ass because he was supposed to be watching her, or they both were and wern't which makes them equally responsible, and being a cop he knew that. I believe I heard it said that the neglect of supervision that results in death of a child is a felony.

Plus my God... as said above... Cindy's wrath.

I think she ratted him out a long time ago to her attorney, but until her court case, we didn't hear it. And of course the other option is this is all a result of her own actions that resulted in death and her crazy Zanny cover up and leaving her to look like she was murdered.

A couple things....

3 years ago when the media was wondering if Caylee drowned in the backyard, Cindy admonished "People drown all the time and are brought back". I found that remark to be suggestively weird in that it suggests if Caylee had drowned and there had been time elapsed to where she could have been brought back then she would have been....either a 911 call or Cindy or George both knowing CPR either one of them might have been able to save Caylee. This sort of holds with the defense question in cross yesterday that if Caylee had been drowned for too long then no emergency rescue call would have been made. So in line with the defense allegations that Caylee drowned, I would say if KC had found the body floating in the pool she would have called for help because she would not know it was too late and because she couldn't do a rescue on her...but on the other hand if Cindy or George had found the body both of them would know if it was too late to call 911.

Also, way back when, Cindy accused Jesse of drowning Caylee in the backyard pool. So the pool drowning thing has been at least an option for manner of death with the Anthony family since 3 years ago, especially from Cindy.

Second thing....Lee's statement of long ago to Casey when he was trying to get info on finding a missing Caylee "Is this like last time?"

What the heck is this 'last time'? Well, given that Cindy said she last saw Caylee on June 9th and given that she suggested Ricardo has something to do with this and given that Ricardo testified that on June 9th KC and Caylee were in the bed sleeping when he went to sleep but Caylee was not there in the morning and KC told him Cindy called and made her bring Caylee home in the middle of the night....what might this suggest?

It might suggest that June 9th something happened to Caylee...such as too much chloroform...and KC rushed Caylee home to Cindy that night. And nurse Cindy took care of Caylee because you can't really call 911 for help when the child is sick due to chloroform used on her. Is this what Lee meant by "Is this like last time?" And is this the secret Lee promised to keep so as not to encourage the prosecution in the area of chloroform?

Next thought.....we know KC and George were always on Cindy's shit list so it's easy to assume KC and George would hide things from Cindy....BUT we also know that KC and Cindy teamed up on George and didn't want his involvement in anything....Cindy, for example, didn't even want George asking questions about where KC worked. So basically what this dysfunctional family did was this....Cindy was either at odds with both KC and George or at times Cindy was friending KC against George....in that light it would seem KC and Cindy might have conspired to keep Caylee's death from George.

I mean, it was Cindy who spoke to KC every day on the phone after June 16th....until July 3rd when KC wouldn't answer her phone and Cindy panicked. Could Cindy have been helping KC with her lies about why she was not home?

Additionally, about Cindy....there was a neighbor who was a friend of KC at one point who said on a news report (sorry can't recall her name but I don't see it on the witness list) that Cindy told her on June 16th that KC and Caylee were going to be gone for a month to Jacksonville while KC looked for work so not to be worried if she didn't see Caylee for a while.

A MONTH! that's like the so called script KC said Zanny gave her to follow that told KC not to call the cops for 30 days!

And then after 30 days, amazingly Cindy calls the cops. And does what? Reports the car stolen! But it was already back at the house! So what was her point in reporting it stolen? apparently an attempt to get the cops involved without having to admit she knew anything about Caylee being dead.

Then Cindy can't say she knew about it...so she gets Lee to come over so KC can confess the nanny took Caylee story to him so Cindy can be innocent in all of this.

Is this then, a conspiracy between Mother and Daughter?

OK look at the gas can incident...Cindy called KC and told her George called the cops on it. But KC didn't admit to Cindy she had them....yet when George sneaks around to see if she has them that afternoon, even without his asking about them, KC says to him "here's your fking cans!" I could surmise, given the mother/daughter bonding against George, that Cindy called KC to tell her George had called the damn cops. Hence, mother and daughter team had to be cautious about what might come of it.

The problem with this case, as I see it, is that there are too many unanswered questions that seem like they can only be answered if either George or Cindy or both were involved.

WoW... those are very interesting thoughts Lottie.

And today... the duct tape was "not" found at the home, but at the volunteer location. And who was always at that location... George and Cindy. Who admitted under testimony they put that tape on the gas can so it wouldn't spurt out.... George. I had heard this before and was wondering when the connection would come out. Probably during the defense portion.

My question with Lotties' thoughts are why would Cindy call and say the car smells like a dead body if they were conspiring a "murder". Maybe Cindy and Casey plan to dump this all on George since he had access to the tape and the car?

Maybe their story will be Casey had run an errand, George dosed off, when she came home they frantically looked for Caylee who had drowned an hour or more before and then George took over telling Casey to keep her mouth shut.... he would make it look like a murder hmmm but if he did... he did a very poor job using her little blanket from the house, the laundry bag from the house, and the disney bag that was obviously from her room, and using duct tape they could retrace to all of them having access too. Is he that dumb????

About the duct tape being used at the volunteer location to tape up pictures and whatnot....I can't 100% remember who said what, but Lee, George and Cindy were all asked who used the tape for that...and at least Cindy denied using it. I think IIRC Lee admitted to it, and George might have said he didn't recall if he did it or someone else did. But I'm pretty sure Cindy said they didn't even use duct tape at the volunteer location. And when confronted with pictures that the tape was used there, Cindy just blew it off as it wasn't worth talking about. My point here is that whoever did admit to using that duct tape probably didn't tape up Caylee.

Good question about why Cindy would say the car smelled of a dead body....she did say though that she only said that to get the cops over there faster, and she said George was the one who said it to her after which she asked if maybe it could be the pizza and George allegedly said maybe it could.

But why did she really say it? Probably because she was distancing herself from having already known there was one and she wanted to act like this was something new to her before the cops pointed it out to her. She didn't want to have to react in front of the cops as if this was new because she didn't trust how her fake reaction would be perceived...thus guilty conscience? also....when people lie, they don't always cover their asses well and just intend on explaining things away with BS if they screw up.

See I had the misfortune of growing up in a house full of sociopaths. I have seen them at work so many times - at my expense- and it never ceases to amaze me the stuff they think people will fall for...and most of the time people do fall for what they say mainly because their stories are missing elements that actually make sense to where you don't have to analyze it, and people just go with reasonable belief because they are confused by the missing pieces that would connect the dots that would make the story sound true without having to analyze it. In other words, a sociopath doesn't reason their lies out before stating them...they provide reasons as needed to continue the lie/story they want to present if questioned.....so when normal people hear their odd stories they first go What?...because it doesn't make complete sense yet....but everyone who has ever dealt with a sociopath knows that asking a sociopath to explain things will only make things more confusing...so normal people just tend to either believe what they say at face value or dismiss it altogether. It's very hard to get into a sociopath's head because you can't reason out what was not reasoned in in the first place and sociopaths don't reason things in before they do them expect only so far as that very moment they need to say stuff. And then, when they need to further explain- should anyone ask them to, they only explain the one thing you are asking at the moment and they don't necessarily take themselves back to the beginning and tie it all together...they start at new points all the time...in other words, there is no big picture with them, there are many small plots that end up disjointed and confusing.

Well George already admitted on stand he was the one who placed the duct tape on the garbage can... and we know it was from the volunteer location. So we know that much.

Your explanation of a sociopath is like a detailed drawing of Casey. Right on target.

One other point that struck me as odd... the defense didn't try to make something of was.... the dog handler said he asked to have the car removed from the crime lab garage. He talked about the other substances in the garage and what had been thrown away into the garage garbage from the labs that they could respond to in looking for decomposition and it would throw them off. ...... well If I were Biaz, I would have jumped all over that. Claiming the possibility of the soft surfaces of Casey's car.... the seats, headliner, fabric trunk liner.... could have absorbed some of those odors from being in the garage which could cause the dog to alert in error.

I have been reading this thread and thinking (I know..uh oh! LOL) Anyway...the one thing that I have always thought was Lee & possibly George was involved, at least afterwards....cover up, etc.

I can't figure out why whom ever DID dump Caylee's body...why on earth would they wrap her up in bags, tape, etc. that would link her to the house? IF they would have just dumped her body, down the road, exactly where they found her...without tape, without bags...LE would never have been able to rule it a homicide. It's the duct tape, bags & such, that allows LE to link it back to SOMEONE at that home.

I think she was in the freezer, in the garage..until the 24th, when the car was backed in & KC gave George his cans back. I think that poor baby was in the freezer & was THEN put into the trunk. JMHO

WOW what have I been missing! I just came upon this and your theories and opinions are very interesting. Way to go ladies!!!
I'm old school ... KC wanted to go to Puerto Rico with her friends, Cindy said she was busy and couldn't watch her so KC killed her. Open and close case. Caylee didn't drown. George wasn't in on it even though he is kind of sly but not guilty. KC is soley responsible for the murder of Caylee. If I wasn't in such a rush I would write more but my granddaughter is yelling at me to watch the new Nick iCarly movie! :)) I'll be back soon! I like the way you think!

FystyAngel wrote:I have been reading this thread and thinking (I know..uh oh! LOL) Anyway...the one thing that I have always thought was Lee & possibly George was involved, at least afterwards....cover up, etc.

I can't figure out why whom ever DID dump Caylee's body...why on earth would they wrap her up in bags, tape, etc. that would link her to the house? IF they would have just dumped her body, down the road, exactly where they found her...without tape, without bags...LE would never have been able to rule it a homicide. It's the duct tape, bags & such, that allows LE to link it back to SOMEONE at that home.

I think she was in the freezer, in the garage..until the 24th, when the car was backed in & KC gave George his cans back. I think that poor baby was in the freezer & was THEN put into the trunk. JMHO

Fysty, I've wondered if KC's visit to the house on the 24th was to get Caylee out of the freezer, but George was home so she came back another day and did it....the 24th was a Tuesday and she had all week before Friday Night party time.

In answer to your question about why all the stuff from the house that was a dead give away....KC was over it. She doesn't think about tomorrow.

I do not believe George got rid of the body. He is too shrewd. He knows he could have dumped her in any alligator infested waters and been done. Remember when someone reported seeing a woman looking like KC coming out of the woods somewhere else and then George was seen staring in to the woods? I wonder if Kc did originallly put her else where and that is why no soil on shoes etc. But then really in florida, she could have been barefooted or had a pair of flip flops she threw away. I think KC acted alone in the beginning but I do believe at some point one of the other low lifes knew where she was.Today the guy said he belived her to have been put in that spot the end of june early july and that they are sure she had friends ride around in the car all the while Caylee was in the trunk. Sick people.
The other thing that still freaks me out is the fact she was friends with Melinda Duckett, she attended Trenton's baby shower. Lee is friends with Trenton's father who helped early on to look for Caylee.. Melinda Duckett was smart enough to get rid of little Trenton never to be found.I think she thought she could do it if Melinda did it sucessfully, hell who knows she may have helped her. I can't stand the thought she was in the freezer, every time I walk by ours I think of Fysty's theory.

Sorry about the freezer Tiger but I just can't shake it that Caylee may have been in there.

Wouldn't it just blow the hell out of everything if Bozo got up there & stated the Caylee WAS in the freezer for some of that time? What would that do to the prosecution? All of the evidence is based on time in the trunk & tossed in the woods. Lets say for "What if's..." that she was in the freezer until say...June 24th...when she backed into the garage. Frozen for a week or more....what would that do to everyone's testimony on the prosecution side...the bugs, etc.????

Even if she was placed in the freezer for a week, she would have done it as soon as possible. Then, after Caylee thawed out, decomp would have proceeded very fast and the fluids would have licked out into the trunk.

I really don't think Caylee was ever in the freezer. KC doesn't think that way. I think Caylee died in that trunk, while KC was at Tony's house. She then took her home and taped her with George's duct tape, applied the heart sticker and put her in the 3 bags, and back into the trunk.

She finally dumped the remains when the smell was getting more than she could take, and she didn't bother to go to too much trouble in doing so.

What would it do to the testimony? Well, might it not still work for the days after Caylee thawed out? They said she was decomposing in the trunk for 3-5 days.

Let's say hypothetically that KC removed Caylee from the freezer on the 25th after finding George home on the 24th. She drives around knowing it's going to start to stink so she goes ahead and tells Amy her car stinks. (my sociopath fake mom used to say you had to tell stuff first before it happened...predict it so when it does happen people already know the story/lie) Then by the 27th it really is stinking after thawing out for about 24 hours in the hot trunk plus a day of decomp. So she parks it at Amscott by the dumpster to hide any smell and figure out what to do next.



And the bag would probably rip when she took her from the freezer so a hole in the bag might have left a mess in the trunk...which KC cleaned up with paper towels and then rebagged Caylee....put the bag in the laundry bag because it was easier to carry. And you know, that's a heavy clump of ice...so maybe she had to wait till she thawed out so she'd be easier to handle.

At any rate, those security cameras at Amscott aren't lined up on the dumpster. Baez even pointed out the directioning of them. He even asked if the car had been moved and brought back no one would know. So who is to say that after Amscott hours someone did come back and get the car, dump the body and then park it back there again? It's not like there'd be much chance of that spot being taken. No one would know the car had been taken away during the night. And she had Tony's car at the time with no Tony keeping track of her...so she could park it next door and then drive off in it after her dumping was done.

And what of it being out of gas? KC said it was almost half full but the gauge was broken. George and Simon Burch said it registered on empty. LE checked the gauge and it was not broken...so did KC leave the car there with gas in it? And just lie to Tony about it being out of gas? And did she run it almost out of gas on purpose after dumping the body and then just let it idle at the dumpster in the middle of the night until it was out? KC ran out of gas so much I'm sure she was quite familiar with how long she had gas after it started registering empty.

So if that was the case, the 3-5 days of decomp would still work.

I thought early on 3 years ago someone said KC's keys were in the ignition when the car was found. Anyone else remember this? It was supposedly locked with the key in the ignition and KC's purse on the seat. I think Cindy said it IIRC. But in testimony no purse was seen on the seat....hmmm...anyone recall about this?