State has not proven its case ??

[/quote] Throwing out a bunch of far-fetched, unlikely scenarios with no testimony or evidence to back them up does not establish reasonable doubt.[/quote]

That is what could be the kiss of death for Casey, imo, even IF it was an accident and coverup. They may be able to make Kronk look like a slim ball who needed money but common sense would tell us if that is the case he would of reported finding her body ASAP and not risk moving it and having someone else find her and moving it so close to the road. They can grill George about abuse and being there at the time but unless he confesses, it is his word against a daughter that the State has proven lies about anything and everything. IF she takes the stand who will believe anything she says? And the Prosecution would have a field day with her.

So, if it really was an accident all the lies and cover ups may back fire.

Don't forget the Prosecution has the last word in the trial at Rebuttal after the Defense rests their arguments. At this point they will seek to refute what the Defense has presented and they can call new witnesses and all that.

I think they were very smart not to lay out all they had yet and save it for destroying Baez's and Mason's claims.

Justice4all wrote:
According to Dr. G and common sense, it wouldn't be reasonable to make an accidental drowning look like a homicide. The defense has to establish a reasonable doubt. Throwing out a bunch of far-fetched, unlikely scenarios with no testimony or evidence to back them up does not establish reasonable doubt.

The jury is going to wonder why, if Baez had this knowledge of accidental drowning via KC, he didn't inform LE and the Prosecution of it before the trial began. Technically, he was so obligated if his client 'finally confessed' to him the 'truth'. This is not client privileged information. Even if KC told him this the morning before the trial began, the trial would have been halted until KC's confession was checked out. Baez didn't do this because he knows damn right it's not true.

Now he can get up in opening and make any sort of off the wall claims he wants to...he needs no proof of what he claims. But when he says outright for a fact that George had his *&^ &* is KC's mouth AND implicates George in the illegal disposal of a corspe, he'd better be able to prove that or else he's got a lawsuit on his hands. Baez is not immune just because he went on hearsay from KC.

If Baez wanted to use an alternate explanation for why KC didn't report her child missing and why she lied for years about it, he could speculate in opening that there might be some reason why....but he can't just say for a fact that Caylee drowned without proof of it or a foundation of having told the Prosecution earlier about this confession...and that brings us back to IF he had proof of it, even circumstantial proof of it, he should have told the Prosecution before the trial began and more tax dollars were wasted on this trial. Basically, Baez would be withholding information about a criminal investigation....and he's also be remiss in not telling this earlier to where his client may have been bonded out of jail or something due to a lesser charge.

Baez presented the drowning issue as if it had been told to the Prosecution and ignored. He did this by not saying this was new, thus leaving the impression that perhaps he had to say it at opening because they wouldn't listen to it all along....because who in their right mind would introduce a 'truth' in opening unless it had been a point they had been trying to use all along to get KC out on bond for a lesser charge? Too bad they can't put Baez on the stand and make him say he never mentioned it to them that KC had 'confessed'.

I'm quite sick of the Defense's shenanigans. I'm sure not all the jury will be fooled by Baez and Mason's attempts to confuse the issue. And if any are, then the others will likely try to enlighten them to think about it some more before handing down a hung jury thing. I see this going one of 2 ways....Guilty of the charges or Hung Jury in which case she'll just get another trial. But I do not believe she will be let off the hook to run free.

Listening to Judge's response on mis-trial....
WOW... bet the defense is sorry they brought that up at this point! Just before they try to muddy the waters...

opps didn't mean to hit "send"...
meant to say acquittal not mis-trial.
I think he just strengthened the prosecution case emensly.

Mason's attempts to argue that KC was a good mom according to her young friends, and therefore couldn't have possibly premeditated killing her was just silly. The truth is, everybody who has ever premeditated killing someone and then did, has fooled everyone or else someone would have stopped the murder.

LottieM wrote:Mason's attempts to argue that KC was a good mom according to her young friends, and therefore couldn't have possibly premeditated killing her was just silly. The truth is, everybody who has ever premeditated killing someone and then did, has fooled everyone or else someone would have stopped the murder.

And most of us could probably raise our hands and say "yes" I have known someone who appeared to be a good parent when I first met them to only see later they were not the stand up parent they pretended to be. How many of her young friends who have never been a parent really know what it is to be one?

Right, maggie...what do they know? The only one who probably did was that gf of one of Tony's roommates who was concerned about Caylee being left out on the balcony alone while KC was doing 'what' in Tony's bedroom.

Justice4all wrote:

PamalaSmith wrote:Wait, Casey was complaining about the smell herself - where has THIS been as a headline over and over in the press all of this time?

Amy Huizenga testified about this and also mentioned it in her interview with the OCSO on July 23, 2008.

"She (Casey) had told me that there was this horrible smell in her car and she couldn’t figure out what it was. And then like as the days progressed, it may have been more than two days. But I know it was at least more than one day that she talked to me. So it had to have been at least two days that she told me about this smell in her car. And she uhm, you know like the next day it was just so much worse. She was like I think maybe my dad ran something over with my car when he borrowed it and it, it smells like something died in my car. And uhm, but she had mentioned the engine as being the source of the smell."

Well, Amy Huizenga proved that she would easily lie in court anyway.

I think the only real thing they have proven is Casey is a liar. That's for sure, but I don't see any hard evidence connecting her with a murder. After seeing videos and hearing testimony about how she loved her little. I wouldn't vote for M1. I do feel the family is involved more than is lead to be. Manslaughter for drowning and time already spent for lying to police. Hung jury more likely or an appeal.

They have proven she was involved, she lied and lied without emotion, had her in the car for days and had to have put her in the woods. They have proven manslaughter, but not murder. We don't know how where or why she died, and that's too much info not to know for a death penalty case. I think 2nd degree murder might be on the table, maybe she will get that. It's just hard to think this was premeditated, even with the computer searches.

mindseye wrote:I had a weird feeling today when I saw Cindy "mouth" to Casey on her way out.... "I love you". It was like she was saying... "it's ok... it will be over soon... I love you".

I thought my God the whole family is in on this cover up Baez will be presenting on his defense. I felt Cindy, George, Lee, they all have had to testify and they know it didn't sound good for Casey, but they had to because you couldn't get around the facts that had been proven. She "was" in the trunk, the blanket, the laundry bag, and on and on. But her mouthing "I love you" made me feel all of them know that Baez will be implicating George in the defense portion to the degree the jury will be so full of reasonable doubt with the details Baez will bring up .... they feel it will be impossible to charge Casey with murder.

I feel this even more as I see this going on.... and throwing George under the bus is OK with all of them, even George.... they know nothing implyed by implicating George can ever be
proved (if none of it is true) so he'll be just fine, even if ever charged. But it will get Casey off Murder1.

You know mindseye, I am beginning to agree with you. Maybe Bozo isn't as stupid as we all thought, or it may be Mason's plan, after all, he is smarter and has more experience than Bozo. I think he has been talking to GA and CA and told them this in the only way of getting KC out of this 1st degree murder charge, and if you will go along with what I am doing, she may actually walk out of the court house not guilty of any of the charges of murder and manslaughter.

We will try to get the other lesser charges combined, and the sentence to be 'time served', and she may walk out of the courthouse on Mason's arm as he perdicted in the beginning.

I sure hope not, but who knows?

Oh God mama...you made my stomach tie in a knot!

If she walks out all smug on Mason and Baez's arms with them all smug too....while Caylee rotted away in the woods 3 years ago and KC partied while it happened....well, that is going to be really bad. If that happens they'd better at least not be smug about it.

But then again, Baez will only be smug for a while until he get charged with contempt and hopefully gets disbarred.

EXACTLY SITEMAMA....

I thought today myself... Baez may just be pulling off a genius defense where there was none. God knows he had nothing to work with.

The most damning thing is the "smell" and her actions. I believe he's going to cover her actions in the way I've mentioned before, George telling her to "shut up and act like nothing is wrong" - "come up with reasons why we can't see Caylee until I decide what to do with her". He may imply George hired Kronk to dispose of the body and make it look like a murder, call in to report it to claim the reward. Kronk being dumb, waited to long to put the duct tape on. George "could" be guilty of everything Baez is going to imply he is. We will NEVER know. He will deny everything and that's the plan... to create doubt and lesser the charges on Casey.

The only tie in to the family (and not just Casey) is the blanket and the laundry bag from their home. The duct tape ties it to George more than Casey. Prosecution really has no factual information, even to the cause of death. Their pathologist says it's consistent with and must be homicide due to the duct tape and the child being bagged. I say it's also consistent to a cover up made to appear as a murder. Especially since the duct tape was stuck to the skull when the skin it was really attached to was gone long ago . How did it now get attached to the skull and why is it still attached....

They are all chattering tonight on HLN.... I want to yell at them... just WAIT... you'll see what's coming and it's going to be GEORGE on the stand. This poor jury will be so confused

If Bozo continues with his drowning story, and as he said, GA disposed of the body, WHY IN THE HELL did he put that body in KC's car for at least 2.6 days? That is the part I wouldn't buy if I were on the jury.

BTW, how did he know Kronk so that he could contact him and turn the body over to him to dispose of? Did Kronk put Caylee in those woods before August? We know the cops didn't go in there to look for her. What if they had sent a brave cop, one that went in there and found her in August. Was the body already completely skeletonized in August, or would there have been some tissue?

I DO still believe Caylee was placed there at the end of June for the weeds to have grown as big as they were.

I realize we have heard lots of info, that the jurors say they have not heard. But, are they getting all the minute details that will convince them KC did this all on her own and should be convicted of 1st degree murder.

I hope.

Another thing that really struck me today was Lee's crying because he wasn't "included" in being told Casey was pregnant, then his not going to the hospital when Caylee was born. Those tears were "real" and I felt his emotion. And for once Casey's tears and emotion were "real" too. What's the connection between them.... seems oddly deep, more than just brother/sister.

The only other time I saw Casey show true emotion and true tears was in the opening statement about the sexual abuse by her father. When she really cries her face/nose and neck get red and you can see she's affected.

Don't know about KC's tears, but I agree Lee was definitely crying, but why?

I think he was just crying due to realizing his family is so fked up that it has to come to this point. His tears seemed to me more like a nervous breakdown coming on.

Also, Lee is like the outsider in the family. I always got the impression from him that he didn't approve of the nonsense that went on in that family and would be the one to walk away from it to avoid having to deal with them all. His tears might have been spurred on from thinking if he'd been more proactive with the family dynamic perhaps he might have saved Caylee from what happened to her.

He did say at the memorial service that he'd keep CMA's secret...what secret? Did it have anything to do with his question to KC "Is this like last time"?

Did KC overdose Caylee once before? Like that night she mysteriously wasn't at Ricardo's the morning after she was there sleeping in his bed the night before...when Ricardo said KC told him Cindy called and wanted Caylee brought to her?