The Duct Tape

Here's a bigger image for you:

this photo is eerie!

the way the tape was applied, it seems to me it was done after she was dead to maybe contain leakage.

Thank you SNaz...I keep telling everyone I'm computer illiterate...and Lottie I can't help but agree with you...I think it was a post-death decision...I think she did it at the house...isn't that where the roll of duct tape was found?

This pic sure does look like Caylee's little body!

I'm trying to figure out why she'd be in that position.

Questions and observations....

She appears to be lying there with her arms down to her sides - at least to her elbows. If we assume this is her rigor state, she probably wasn't asleep when she died because it's not usual for a person's arms to be in that position while sleeping. However, it might suggest she drowned!

A drowning victim's arms and legs generally end up bent at the elbows and knees uniformly, such that her upper arms would be floating and pretty much even with her torso while her lower arms would be dangling downward at the elbow. The legs would be dangling downward from the hip and then the feet would be attempting to surface, thus giving the victim bent knees (fetal position).

I did some research and it seems rigor typically sets in with drowning victims at 2 hours and then is fully realized between 6-12 hours. Then it starts to release between 24-36 hours after death. So>

If Caylee had this shape as rigor from drowning, then she was not removed from the water until between 6-12 hours or up to 36 hours after death.

She would sink right away, then only surface once the gases began to build up. That could take a few days. But she would have had to been discovered before 36 hours after death. Hmmm....what if she drowned on the 16th, wasn't found for over 6 hours or even up until 2 days later!

Hmmmm....

I, personally, don't think Caylee drowned. For one thing, the level of chloroform found suggests she ingested it somehow, but it could not have been through the pool chemicals since the A's used Baquacil, which contains no chlorine. Besides, no way do I believe she was in that pool for any length of time, certainly not hours.

Also, I know there is a lot of speculation all over the place about whether the tape was placed on Caylee's face before she died or after, and I believe it was before. Part of the reason I say that is that I believe there is a possibility she suffocated Caylee. Another reason I say that is because I just don't believe KC is smart enough to even think about using the tape to keep the body from leaking fluids. After all, the body has other orifices from which fluids would also have been leaking, including the ears. I think the garbage bags were what was used to contain the fluids, not the duct tape.

KC is a fly-by-the-seat-of-her-pants kind of girl..... she has proven over and over again in this case, she didn't think anything through thoroughly....she just dealt with things as they happened. I just don't believe she would have thought ahead to place tape to keep the nose and mouth from leaking fluids. (Besides, what about the ears?) And if she had done it after the fluids began to leak, most likely the duct tape would not have stuck so well....

Also, it does appear little Caylee was laying in a fetal position when she died. Or at least when she was laid in the trunk and began to decompose. I read a scenario about that somewhere and the person suggested that KC had carried her like you would a sleeping child, with Caylee's head draped over her left arm and her legs draped over KC's right arm.

Consider this: Caylee was already dead when KC placed her in the trunk. KC carried Caylee as she would have if she had been asleep. Then...... DUMP..... and little Caylee ended up on her left side in the trunk. And that is where she lay as she began to decompose, until her mother stuffed her into the garbage bags and threw her away like she was a bag of garbage. Based on the discovery (and my recent realization of just what the discovery pictures may show), to me, that makes a lot of sense.

As always, this is all JMO.

Snaz......OMG. I have never been able to make out the shape of a child until this picture. I am horrified. I hate Casey Anthony.

Piper, that was my EXACT thought when I first saw that picture. I was completely horrified. I was also a little bit sick to my stomach as I actually envisioned what really could have actually happened to that poor child.

I hate Casey Anthony, too!!!!

After I recovered from the shock, I almost cried. It's like looking at a dead Caylee and just pure hatred ran through me thinking what this child suffered and then thrown in a freaking trunk, bagged and dumped in a swamp.

I went Googling for the image in the trunk and came across an image,

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd234/reannan1462/Caylee%2520Anthony/BlackBagCloseUp-TreeTrunk.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php%3Fp%3D3081199&usg=__Y694QxloFIlrYUHNPszRAu4LZx8=&h=478&w=564&sz=68&hl=en&start=134&um=1&itbs=1&tbnid=v3KWWnOk-RiilM:&tbnh=114&tbnw=134&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dcaylee%2Banthony%2Btrunk%2Bimage%26start%3D120%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DN%26rlz%3D1T4GGLL_enUS313US313%26ndsp%3D20%26tbs%3Disch:1

which lead me to an interesting discussion & pictures at Websleuths. Starting on page 7, comment #158.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=76732&page=7

Don't look at it if you're overly sensitive. It is a sensitive subject.

I can see what they're talking about, but I don't think LE let a photo like that slip by, and if they did, they would have pulled it by now. But, it is an interesting conversation from December 2008. Also later they're talking about Caylee's yellow book, I think that was the yellow daycare flyer.

I agree, Julie. I definitely don't think the State would have released the photo if it had been a picture of Caylee's skull.... many times we see what we want to see......

JMO

Snaz - somewhere in those WS pages, I clicked on a link that did show, from a forensics point of view, I guess, an actual skull of a 3 yo. Creepy.

Yes, Julie, I saw that skull.... it was creepy.

Duct Tape Debate Resurfaces In Anthony Case
Defense Claims Tape Not Adhered To Caylee's Remains

UPDATED: 4:17 pm EDT September 29, 2010

~Snipped~

Meanwhile, the prosecution and the defense are at odds over where the tape was and whether is was the weapon used to kill Caylee.

Prosecutors said the tape placed over Caylee's mouth was meant to kill her.

In her autopsy report, Chief Medical Examiner Dr. Jan Garavaglia found the duct tape was clearly placed prior to decomposition.

The attorney for Roy Kronk, who found the remains, said, "I can verify that Roy told law enforcement and testified in his deposition that the tape was on the skull and over the mouth."

Defense attorneys for Anthony beg to differ.

"The tape was not adhered to any part of this child -- just some of her hair. The rest is not accurate," defense attorney Cheney Mason said.

Read more: http://www.wesh.com/r/25213458/detail.html

These two defense attorneys are truly complete idiots! Where do I start?

In the autopsy report, Dr. G stated:


http://www.wesh.com/download/2009/0619/19802034.pdf

So, Mason's comment...

"The tape was not adhered to any part of this child -- just some of her hair. The rest is not accurate," defense attorney Cheney Mason said.

...is completely ridiculous! Somewhere in a video that I can't put my hands on at the moment, I heard Mason say that the tape was "minimally' attached to the hair. I believe somewhere in the autopsy is the fact that they had to cut the hair in order to remove the tape.... Cheney Mason deceptively tries to leave the listeners/readers with the impression that the tape was just barely attached to a few hairs... no big deal.

He also stated during the video that the duct tape was not attached to the SKULL. Well, Mr. Mason, no one ever said the duct tape was attached to the skull. What was stated in the autopsy report, again, was that the skull had "duct tape over the lower portion of the face, with the tape still attached to some of the scalp hair," and that "the mandible was still in its approximate anatomic location in spite of complete skeletonization."

I believe the defense is deliberately manipulating facts of this case, but that's nothing new.

My personal opinion, based on their comments after they deposed Dr. G, is that they will ultimately go with the "accident and panic" theory. They have been screaming someone else put Caylee's body in those woods while KC was in jail to anyone who would listen, so that would imply the SODDI defense. They wanted to try to implicate Roy Kronk as a suspect, but there is absolutely no evidence to substantiate that theory.

After seeing they have a completely unimpeachable witness in Dr. G with a stellar reputation, I think they realize they better try out that accident theory. Because now they are claiming there's not even proof of a homicide. I guess that duct tape is only valuable if they can use it against Roy Kronk.... not to prove premeditation against KC.

So I think we might be seeing more statements made by the defense that would lend toward an accidental death and KC panicked, blah, blah, blah...... I just don't see a jury buying that defense. After all, when a child dies from some sort of an accident, wouldn't most people call 911 rather than to spend 31 days living la "bella vita"?

As always, just my

My sources:

WESH article: http://www.wesh.com/r/25213458/detail.html
Autopsy Report: http://www.wesh.com/download/2009/0619/19802034.pdf
Video: Wish I could find but, alas, I cannot

P.S. Richard Hornsby's comment in the video I posted above about expecting some some soft tissue underneath the duct tape is pretty far out there, too.... but then... he is also a defense attorney. If it were true that there would be some soft tissue protected by the duct tape, then we might also have fingerprints preserved between those layered pieces of duct tape.... which I am not yet convinced there isn't... but that's a comment for another time...

WESH explores the focus on duct tape

posted by halboedeker on September, 29 2010 7:11 PM

Where was the duct tape found on Caylee Anthony’s remains?

WESH-Ch. 2’s Bob Kealing tonight examined how Casey Anthony’s defense is challenging what has been said about the duct tape. Casey Anthony is charged with first-degree murder in the death of her daughter. Defense attorney Cheney Mason said there was some tape on the child’s hair, but none was over her airways.

Kealing listed what others have said: Prosecutors say the tape was over Caylee’s mouth. Dr. Jan Garavaglia said the tape was placed over Caylee’s lower skull before decomposition. Roy Kronk, the meter reader who found the child’s remains, has testified that the tape was on the skull and over the mouth.

Read more: http://blogs.orlandosentinel.com/entertainment_tv_tvblog/2010/09/casey-anthony-wesh-explores-the-focus-on-duct-tape.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+entertainment%2Ftv%2Ftvguy+%28TV+Guy%29&utm_content=Twitter

Duct Tape Over Caylee's Mouth? Kronk Says Yes, Lawyers No
Casey Anthony's Lawyers Say Tape Only Stuck To Daughter's Hair

POSTED: 4:03 pm EDT October 1, 2010
UPDATED: 5:54 pm EDT October 1, 2010

ORANGE COUNTY, Fla. -- Roy Kronk, the man who discovered Caylee Anthony's remains in a wooded area in December 2008, dismissed new claims on Friday from Casey Anthony's defense team that duct tape was only marginally stuck to her daughter Caylee's hair.

Kronk’s claims could help prosecutors argue that Anthony was the one who dumped her daughter’s remains. He also provides the state a non-law enforcement eyewitness who says that the duct tape was clearly placed over Caylee’s mouth.

Just hours after discovering the remains, Kronk told detectives he lifted up the bottom of a trash bag and "a human skull dropped out with hair around it and duct tape across the mouth."

Read more: http://www.wesh.com/r/25243814/detail.html